The Science of Visible Sound with John Stuart Reid

Click to listen on your favorite podcast platform:

Gain a fresh perspective on integrated medicine and holistic healing as we delve into the science of visible sound with John Stuart Reid, offering a new understanding of how sound frequencies can enhance your physical and mental well-being.

“And now we have to think that because sound is always all around us, there’s never silence. Never true silence, really.”

John Stuart Reid, acoustic physics scientist, authority in Cymatic science, inventor of the CymaScope, and today’s guest on Quantum Revolution with Karen Curry Parker

Join Karen and John as they dive deep into the realms of healing and well-being. In this episode, we explore the fascinating intersection of sound, healing, and quantum alignment. For thousands of years, humans have integrated ritual and sacred sound into their experiences, and recent years have seen a resurgence in using sound for healing purposes. As they discuss Cymatics (the science of visible sound) groundbreaking insights are revealed including Reid demonstrating how sound can change and restructure the body towards greater wellness.

Check out the video interview on YouTube


John Stuart Reid:

Find out more about John Stuart Reid, Cymatics, and the CymaScope at

Check out John and his team on YouTube

(The list of albums with low frequencies John mentioned today is after the timestamps)

Quantum Revolution

Get your free Quantum Human Design™ Chart at

For more information and for full transcripts (starting with season 6), please go to our website at

Produced by Number Three Productions,


[0:00] Introduction to this episode, “The Science of Visible Sound with John Stuart Reid”, with Karen Curry Parker.

[5:05] Introducing John Stuart Reid.

[5:32] What exactly is Cymatics?

[18:51] We are literally light beings.

[19:32] The ways that are being discovered for sound and its applications in healing the body.

[38:57] Karen and using sound as healing when she worked as a nurse in the ICU.

[47:18] Anders Holte and the Dream of the Blue Whale

[58:09] Thanking John and how to learn more about his work.

[59:31] Outro to this episode, “The Science of Visible Sound with John Stuart Reid”, with Karen Curry Parker.

List of albums from John with low frequencies for healing:

Anders Holte and Cacina Meadu:
Dream of the Blue Whale, album
Leumurian Home Coming, album
Atlantis Remembers, album

Aligned, album by Charleene Closshey:

Reiki Chants, album by Jonathan Goldman:
The Divine Name, album

Octaves of Light, album, by Eluv

Guru, album, by Sat Shaba Singh

Ardas album by Sat Shabd Singh

Symphonic Tales, album, by Haevn Eyes Closed, album

Mikael, album by Leigh Ann Phillips

Lindsey Stirling Live from London, album

Sounds of Stillness, album, by Sheila Whittaker


[Introduction to this episode, “The Science of Visible Sound with John Stuart Reid”, with Karen Curry Parker]

Karen Curry Parker: The beat of a drum, chanting, toning, kirtan, Tibetan bowls, gongs. For thousands of years, we’ve integrated ritual and sacred sound into our human experience. In recent years, using sound to heal has had a popular resurgence with practitioners integrating healing sounds with massage therapy, using sound baths to align energy, and using tones, such as Solfeggio frequencies, to help people reduce stress and calibrate their bodies to healing frequencies of energy.

Karen Curry Parker: Research shows that sound can reduce stress by reducing the production of cortisol and increasing the release of stress reducing neurotransmitters. It can also reduce stress by reducing a patient’s sense of isolation and helping them connect with positive places within themselves. Sound can help healthy circulation by reducing blood pressure and stabilizing the heart rate.

Karen Curry Parker: It strengthens the immune system by triggering the production of gamma globulin A and killer cells. Sound can help improve mood by increasing the production of dopamine, serotonin, and endorphins. It can help patients manage pain better than medication alone. Beyond these general benefits, music has been shown to have specific benefits for specific hospital patients.

Karen Curry Parker: In a neonatal ward, music can give a newborn a soothing first experience of sound, replacing the beeping of medical machinery. In a COVID unit, it can help a patient with compromised lungs. Stabilize erratic respiration. In a cancer ward, it can help a patient cope better with pain. In a waiting room, it can help ease the anxiety.

Karen Curry Parker: In a waiting room, it can help ease the anxiety of an upcoming procedure. In the Quantum Alignment System, where we integrate energy psychology and Quantum Human Design™, we use sound frequencies and tones specifically engineered to calibrate your nine centers to their baseline frequency. We use a combination of special baseline frequencies to strengthen your energy body towards a higher state of resiliency.

Karen Curry Parker: In our work, we found that adding sound frequencies acts as a band aid or a splint, keeping you from defaulting to old thought patterns and conditioned behaviors by helping you hold your energy in place even when your body and mind tend to try to go back to old patterns when you get stressed or challenged.

Karen Curry Parker: And of course, the language of Quantum Human Design™ is deliberately calibrated towards words that hold higher frequencies of energy. I literally tested all the words we use in Quantum Human Design™ and specifically engineered them to hold high frequencies of energy to help you build an energy grid to hold your evolving personal narrative so that you can anchor your deconditioned story energetically while you do the material work to transform your life.

Karen Curry Parker: Every season of the Quantum Revolution Podcast, we choose a theme. This season, we’re hosting guests who are pioneers in the field of healing, brave scientists who are willing to explore how we can best achieve optimal health and well being.

Karen Curry Parker: Today’s guest is a pioneer in the field of Cymatics, the science of sound and making sound visible. John Stuart Reid is an acoustic physics scientist with a mission to educate, inspire, and excite the world in the field of visible sound, known to science as “Faraday Waves”, and to an ever growing number of researchers and explorers as “Cymatics”. Reid points out that since sound underpins almost all matter in the universe and was a potent force in the creation of life in the primordial oceans, it also carries the power to heal life.

Karen Curry Parker: In his frequent lectures, he reveals groundbreaking information on the mechanisms that underpin sound therapy and how it can be applied to improve health naturally. Reid’s career in acoustics has spanned five decades, and he is widely acknowledged as an authority in Cymatic science and speaks on the subject at conferences in Europe and America.

Karen Curry Parker: His CymaScope invention has changed our perception of sound forever. Seeing sound allows us to understand this omnipresent aspect of our world and universe more fully and more deeply. 

[Introduction to the Quantum Revolution Podcast]

Announcer: You’re listening to Quantum Revolution with Karen Curry Parker, exploring new frontiers in consciousness, science, and evolution. Join us in intimate conversations with cutting edge scientists, spiritual leaders, artists, disruptors, and visionaries who are working towards reframing the narrative of our future by healing the rift between spirituality and science, reclaiming creativity, and laying the foundation for a new world.

And now, here’s your host, Karen Curry Parker.

[Interview dialogue with Karen Curry Parker and John Stuart Reid]

Karen Curry Parker: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Quantum Revolution. I’m excited to be having a conversation today with John Stuart Reid and we’re going to be talking about the power and the importance, and I would even say maybe the healing power of sound. So welcome, John It’s exciting to have you

John Stuart Reid: here. Thank you so much, Karen.

John Stuart Reid: It’s actually, I’m really excited to have this second conversation with you. I love the first conversation and I’m sure that I love this one too.

Karen Curry Parker: Good. So you are an expert in a field called cymatics. Talk to us for just a minute about what exactly is cymatics.

John Stuart Reid: Well, in a nutshell, Karen, cymatics is the science of sound made visible.

John Stuart Reid: And, you know, some people say to me, well, can’t we already make sound visible with, you know, things like spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes and what, you know, conventional instrumentation. But I would say that, no, not really, because with those kind of electronic instruments, what you’re really doing is graphing the energy of sound.

John Stuart Reid: So what you’re looking at, say on an oscilloscope or a spectrum analyzer is some form of graph. And nature does not use graphs. In fact, sound is actually, um, holographic, but it’s also a completely analog. Obviously, it’s not, you know, it’s not in the digital domain. Obviously, nature doesn’t use graphs. And so another surprising and perhaps confusing thing for some people to know.

John Stuart Reid: Is that all sounds that you’ve ever heard from your birth have been spherical in nature, they’re not waves, you know, we people talk about sound waves, scientists talk about them, engineers talk about them, and we even get taught sound waves at school, you know, in science class and so on. But the reality is that they don’t exist.

John Stuart Reid: What does exist are sound bubbles. So, you know, I’m speaking now and what’s coming out of my mouth and a little bit out of my nose. Uh, are beautiful sound bubbles that are expanding at the speed of sound, of course, and as they expand, so they’re also pulsating in and out with the actual periodicities, you know, the vibrations of the sound itself.

John Stuart Reid: And so when a scientist or an engineer graphs that pulsation of the bubble, then you see it as a wave because it is literally following a natural law, a sinusoidal law. And therefore, of course, it looks like a wave. So this label, his name, you know, has been tagged on sound waves when in reality they are sound bubbles.

John Stuart Reid: And this actually does have, you know, significant impact on the way that we think about sound as it penetrates into our tissues. So, you know, it’s a very important thing to know that all the sounds you’ve ever heard have been spherical in their space form and on the surface of that bubble. Is a beautiful pattern and we sometimes, you know, sometimes I’m giving a presentation.

John Stuart Reid: I’ll show a an illustration of that. We have a beautiful illustration of a young woman playing a violin and what’s emerging from the violin strings is this gorgeous bubble with a beautiful pattern on the surface. And this, you know, and it’s transparent, obviously you can see through it. Um, and this gives everyone a really good mental picture of what sound looks like in reality.

Karen Curry Parker: And I have seen some of the images that you have on your website. And, and I think even if you search the internet, these, these images are stunning, right? They, they look. You know, they look like mandalas almost, um, they do.

John Stuart Reid: And I think there’s a very good reason for that kind of come back to that in a second.

John Stuart Reid: But, you know, you started asking about what is cymatics and I said, it’s, it’s sound made visible, but perhaps I need to explain a little bit more. Okay, so sound is spherical or audible sounds at any rate or spherical, but what happens is with any sound when it encounters a membrane mm-hmm, , then it imprints, literally imprints a pattern, what we call a sematic pattern onto that membrane.

John Stuart Reid: This happens entirely naturally, entirely, automatically. But of course, all of these patterns that are happening all around us all of the time. Many different types of surfaces, you know, I say a flexible surface, but in reality, most surfaces have some degree of flexibility. So even if we think of, uh, Ernst Chladni, who was the, the guy, the German scientist who’s now in history being, you know, um, championed as the man who invented the Chladni plate, as it’s called.

John Stuart Reid: This is a metal plate. Usually made of brass or it can be made of aluminum or even steel. And you wouldn’t think, I wouldn’t think, I wouldn’t have thought a long, long time ago that steel or brass or aluminum could be flexible to the degree that when sound impinges upon it, it creates a pattern on the surface of the metal.

John Stuart Reid: I, uh, it’s really a kind of bizarre thing to think about, but in reality, yes, sound, sound is, can be imprinted onto metal plates. And of course, again, it’s invisible, but what we then do is sprinkle on some revealing medium and this could be talcum powder, it could be sand, it could be salt, you know, anything that’s going to basically reveal this, this invisible pattern.

John Stuart Reid: And it is a little bit like fingerprints or thumbprints, you know, on a glass. They’re virtually invisible, aren’t they? Until you sprinkle on talcum powder and that then reveals the pattern. So it’s a little bit like, like that. And so cymatics, this bubble of energy that I’ve been referring to, when it encounters a membrane, then a beautiful pattern, if the sound is beautiful, then the pattern itself will be beautiful.

John Stuart Reid: It will be symmetrical and have great visual beauty. And now we have to think that because sound is always all around us, you know, there’s never silence, never true silence, really. There are always sounds. Um, we have to then think, well, what, what do these sounds do when they penetrate into our tissues?

John Stuart Reid: You know, how do they manifest in our bodies, for example? So I could show you a demonstration, Karen, of sound entering into water, say, the cymascope instrument, which you see right behind me here now. It’s a very small area of water. When the sound enters into the water, then in the blink of an eye, literally a tiny fraction of a second, All the trillions and trillions of water molecules are beautifully organized.

John Stuart Reid: You know, really, it’s gorgeous to behold. If you, well, I know you’ve seen some of the cymatic imagery, we call them glyphs on our website, cymascope. com. And, and they are beautiful to behold, aren’t they? And that beauty happens in, as I say, a tiny fraction of a second, as soon as sound enters into water. It has this almost magical ability to organize.

John Stuart Reid: So the same thing, of course, happens in our bodies. You know, all of our cells, first of all, have membranes. Of course, every cell has a membrane, excepting the brain cells. But, you know, all the trillions of cells in our body have membranes. And then, of course, all the visceral waters that are surrounding all of our organs.

John Stuart Reid: All of that, uh, is beautifully organized when we’re in the present, say, of music, you know, we’re in a musical environment, whether that from an actual musical instrument live, you know, or recorded music from speakers. Uh, not through headphones, of course, because that’s a different scenario. I’m talking now full body immersion in a beautiful musical soundscape.

John Stuart Reid: Then it’s going to organize all of the visceral waters in our body, but also that music is going to imprint. Onto every cellular membrane and that has many, uh, medical and health related, uh, implications. Of course, it’s not just then pretty patterns, which they are, um, but then they have an actual purpose, you know, they have an application in our bodies.

John Stuart Reid: So

Karen Curry Parker: I think one of the other things that you had said in our previous discussion is you had talked about how all of the. All of the reactions in the body, all the chemical reactions in the body actually carry a sound. So can you talk a little bit about

John Stuart Reid: that? Sure. Well, yes. Again, this is not something that many people actually know about, you know, even I have spoken even to some neuroscientists and they were astounded by this concept.

John Stuart Reid: Um, but they had to admit, you know, once I explained it to them, they had to admit it’s reality. Uh, it’s just what happens, Karen, in science is there’s a lot of compartmentalization. So, you know, a neuroscientist really doesn’t get into the nitty gritty of physics. And a physicist doesn’t really ever think too much about what’s happening in their brain from a You know, a neuroscience point of view, certain well, even if they think about it, they’re not really permitted within their scientific discipline to, you know, to cross pollinate, as it were, they have to stay within the bounds of their own science.

John Stuart Reid: And this is a sad thing, I think, in science and from, you know, But from a fortunate point of view, I’m, you know, I can go anywhere I like in science and I can think I want to think and I can write anything I want to write. There’s no one, you know, pulling my strings, so to speak. So it makes it possible then for me to kind of join the dots between many different sciences.

John Stuart Reid: And in this case, let’s talk about the thoughts that we are having in our brain. When we think about anything, it doesn’t matter what what subject it is, this relates to, this is represented by trillions of biochemical reactions that are happening in the neurons of the brain. Obviously, the neurons, there are billions of neurons in our brain.

John Stuart Reid: When we have any thought, what immediately happens is that the molecules within the neurons start to vibrate, start to oscillate, basically. And if we then think about it from a physics standpoint, Uh, what happens is when any two atoms or two molecules literally collide with each other, then that is a definition of sound.

John Stuart Reid: So if you now think about it, a complex pattern of energy in the neurons of the brain that are involved in this thought, whatever this thought is, Then causes sound to be created in the brain sound. You can never have sound in an isolated in a sense where there’s no light as well. They’re always sound and light go hand in hand.

John Stuart Reid: And the reason this is true is because again, coming back to the physics of it. This is, these are called inelastic collisions between atoms or molecules. When you have an inelastic collision, which is also a definition of sound, that also means that you have to have a release or a launch. Of electromagnetism.

John Stuart Reid: So literally two atoms that are vibrating, then collide with each other, launches or gives birth, you could say, to light. And the light that’s given birth in our bodies all of the time, because of course we have biochemical reactions happening, not only in the brain, but throughout our whole body or our whole organism.

John Stuart Reid: All of those trillions and trillions of reactions are not only creating sound, but also creating infrared light. Almost all of the light that’s created is in the infrared spectrum, and that is actually why we are warm. That’s why we have warm bodies, right? But also, if you read the science, you will find that some of the light that’s created, uh, are biophotons that are literally in the visible spectrum.

John Stuart Reid: And also a little, a little bit, very small amount in the ultraviolet spectrum. And these are the result of very high speed collisions that are happening inside of our, High velocity, I should say, inside ourselves, create these bio photons that are visible and even into the UV. And, uh, I’ve actually been, I went, Anneliese and I actually went to a really wonderful conference in Slovakia, where one of the speakers was showing His research into this subject, and we’re using a very high sensitivity photo multiplier system, which effectively amplifies your photon activity and was able to show literally the visible light coming off someone’s hands.

John Stuart Reid: It’s really a cool thing to see, you know, to see that we’re actually creating. Not only warmth, you know, infrared, but also visible light. I mean, who knew, you know? Well, it seems

Karen Curry Parker: it makes sense when we think of ourselves or we refer to ourselves as light beings, right? That we are light beings. Yeah. So I think, well, we literally are light beings.

John Stuart Reid: are literally light beings. And of course there are many creatures who can see our light in the infrared spectrum. I mean, we don’t have the eyes to see that, but, uh, but many creatures in the world can see an infrared, so they see a, a different kind of. A view, you know, of our, of our, um, bodies and then we see ourselves anyway.

John Stuart Reid: So these, these are really fascinating aspects of, of sound that are not generally known and again, have many implications in, in terms of health and our wellness.

Karen Curry Parker: So what might be some of the applications that you are contemplating or looking at, or that you know others are looking at in relation to sound and healing in the body?

John Stuart Reid: Well, one of the main, that’s a great question, one of the main, uh, discoveries that was made in this lab, where you see me sitting here now, with Professor Sungchul Ji and I, well, we did this amazing piece of research, I think four years ago now, time flies on. Um, where I’d had this hunch, Karen, that, that music may affect the longevity of red blood cells.

John Stuart Reid: It was just an intuitive thing. And it really came about because I’d been thinking about Pythagoras of Samos, and I’m sure you know that he was, uh, quoted as saying that music could be used in place of medicine. is one of his biographers, I. M. Blickus, reported that, you know, none of Pythagoras own writings are now extant.

John Stuart Reid: They’ve all been lost somehow. But fortunately, you know, Pythagoras did have many biographers, people who followed him, the Pythagoreans as they’re called, and wrote down a lot of what Pythagoras had said. reported it secondhand. Anyway, so apparently he had said that music could be used in place of medicine.

John Stuart Reid: And I realized, I came to realize in the course of my work that was all, uh, inspired by that amazing event that occurred in the Great Pyramid in 1997, when I was miraculously healed of, you know, a very severe lower back pain. And I was healed within only 20 minutes of making sound. And yet no, no amount of, you know, analgesics that I’d been popping like M& Ms before, well, three weeks before going out to Egypt when I sustained this injury three weeks earlier, no amount of painkillers, no amount of visits to physiotherapists.

John Stuart Reid: I’d had a couple of visits anyway, and nothing really had touched the pain. And yet here, you know, only 20 minutes of making sound in the king’s chamber and all of that pain left me and it never came back. So that’s what really, you know, set me on this journey of exploration into, into sound in terms of, you know, the ability to mediate pain for sure, but also many other aspects.

John Stuart Reid: Anyway, I’m going off tangent here, coming back to Pythagoras of Samos and his statement. And I came to realize that. That really that hadn’t been tested very well. It was really more of a hypothesis, you could say, than a theory. And, and then so, you know, that percolated a little bit in my mind for a while.

John Stuart Reid: And then one morning I was just waking up. Some of my best ideas come to me when it was the same for you. You know, when we’re in that kind of theater state of brain. Anyway, I had this, suddenly had this idea for an experiment using human blood. Primarily because blood is very easily accessible, not only, you know, from one’s own body, if you want to do it that way, but also from blood banks, you know, you can easily buy blood.

John Stuart Reid: And, and so I had this idea and the essence of it was to take some whole human blood. Um, and then in it, which arrives from the blood bank, by the way, in a, in a series of test tubes to decant that some of that blood into two smaller test tubes, warm it first to normal blood temperature, because it arrives in a kind of chilled state, you know, warm it to blood temperature, decanted, and then One of these test tubes would go into our Faraday cage in the lab here, which is a very quiet room.

John Stuart Reid: It’s, it’s acoustically lined. It’s also electromagnetically screened. So no electromagnetism of any kind can get into that cage. You know, if you took in their a radio or a television or a smartphone or, you know, whatever you, you would get no signal at all. That’s just a way of saying that no electromagnetism can penetrate that cage and no, and virtually no sound.

John Stuart Reid: It’s really, really quiet in there. Um, you can hear your own breathing. You can hear your own heart sounds. It’s so quiet anyway. So that’s the kind of control for the blood. And the other little vial of blood goes into another incubator. So there’s an incubator in the faraday cage, you know, at blood temperature, and then another incubator in the main body of the lab here, which then has a small speaker in it.

John Stuart Reid: So now we can play music to the blood and Uh, because I’m not a biologist, I know a lot about biology now, by the way, but you know, those four years ago when we started these, um, I knew only the rudiments really of biology. I was, you know, I’m a scientist in the acoustic physics, not in biology. But now I’m actually, you know, very, very keenly interested in all aspects of biology.

John Stuart Reid: Anyway, at that time, I enlisted the help of Professor Sungchul Ji, who then was still professor at Rutgers University in the U. S. Now it’s emeritus, but he was, you know, fully working With Rutgers at the time. Anyway, and, uh, so he helped to design the protocol for this experiment. He literally came here. We worked for a few days together to design this protocol.

John Stuart Reid: And the essence of it was, um, that it would be a 20 minute period of immersion for the vial of blood in the laboratory incubator. So that blood would receive 20 minutes of music. And we had decided upon many different, we test many different genres of music, not, you know, not only classical, which we thought by the way, would probably provide the best result.

John Stuart Reid: What did we know? And, uh, and, but we tested many other genres and also many, well, not many, but three concert pitches. We tested four, three, two Hertz. 440 Hertz and 444 Hertz. Um, you know, they’re all popular pitches. Actually the most popular concert pitch is the 440, you know, which is the, the, the standard international standard.

John Stuart Reid: But as you probably know, Karen, many people in the world, particularly, um, some independent musicians who are. Uh, championing 432 hertz as being the most natural. And then you’ve got another bunch of people saying, no, no, no, 444 hertz is the most natural and so on. Anyway, so we wanted to test all three and we did, but it’s also important to mention here for, you know, for your listeners or viewers that.

John Stuart Reid: That the music that we gathered together for these tests had to be played in that tuning. In other words, not electronically shifted because these days in digital, as you know, you can pitch shift anything, you know, from say it was originally recorded in 440 tuning. You can then just literally hit a slider on a, you know, on a.

John Stuart Reid: piece of equipment and change that pitch down to 432 or up to 444 or anywhere you want. Well, we didn’t want that. We wanted actual natural tuning of instruments and so on to make sure that we, you know, that there was no, uh, implication to doing it electronically anyway. So we did now all of that and it cut a long story short, uh, cause this is a long story, but the essence of it is that every piece of music that we tried, including classical, including many popular genres, and in all the different concert pitches, all created really excellent increases in the viability of the red blood cells that we were, that we were testing.

John Stuart Reid: So your question, I’m coming now to answer the question really, because You, you know, we were, you were referring here to cymatics come into this, into this equation, as it were, well, it comes in because it was only cymatics, which in the end told us, showed us actually what the mechanism was, you know, that underpins this miraculous, seemingly miraculous effect, where it takes some, you take a test tube, you Of whole human blood, it will contain, well, millions and millions and millions, possibly even trillions, I’m not sure, but a lot of red blood cells.

John Stuart Reid: And in percentage terms, there might be, just for argument’s sake, uh, half of them will be alive and well, thank you very much. Say, 25 percent will already be dead when they come from the blood bank. Then another 25 percent will be in a kind of transitory stage where they’re classed as medically old. And what’s happening, Karen, is that the outer membrane of the cells are starting to lose its integrity.

John Stuart Reid: So it’s no longer the beautiful shape that you know of as a red blood cell is starting to break up and look rather. You know, unpleasant on the eye. Anyway, the result of that, of course, in the body is that ultimately those old red blood cells will, will die and will be mopped up by the body’s systems.

John Stuart Reid: But here we are working in vitro in a test tube. And what was happening was that these old red blood cells, like say 25 percent of these old red blood cells were being made new again. You know, it’s like we all. the genie in the lamp, you know, new lamps for old. Well, here we had new, new cells for old. And, uh, and so the kind of typical percentages that we were seeing increase in viability was anywhere in the ballpark of 15 to 20 percent, sometimes even a little bit higher.

John Stuart Reid: So these are old red blood cells that are no longer old. They’ve been regenerated. as a result of being exposed to music. And of course, the head scratcher at the, in that moment when we realized that this was happening was okay, well, that’s wonderful, you know, wonderful result. Now, what is the mechanism?

John Stuart Reid: What’s driving this mechanism? The answer came from cymatics. So what we did was we realized that the frequency response of the speaker in this little incubator Was quite, you know, relatively poor low frequency response because it was a small speaker and small speakers, you know, they can never have a really excellent low frequency response, just the physics of the size of the cone and so on dictate that.

John Stuart Reid: So we came to realize that, okay, well, maybe low frequencies are involved, perhaps in driving this mechanism. And the reason that we came to think that. Before I go further is to say that the classical music had actually produced the poorest results. You know, I said the range was kind of 15 to 20%. Well, the classical music would be, you know, down towards the 15 percent music with it.

John Stuart Reid: a nice throbbing bass beat would be up to the 20%. So several percent difference between classical music and popular music. And that’s why we thought, well, maybe it’s the bass frequencies in the popular music, because of course, classical music, you know, tends not to have much of a bass register. Most of the energy in classical music is in the mid range and in the upper frequencies.

John Stuart Reid: That’s what led us down that little road. And then we thought, okay, well, how do we test this? Because the speaker in the incubator is very small and has this, you know, relatively poor base response. So that’s when we cymascope instrument instead. And because the cymascope instrument has a frequency response, it goes down to three hertz.

John Stuart Reid: You see, so, so what we did was we injected whole human blood into the cymascope instrument, a first in history, obviously. And we then, instead of putting music in, we wanted to do a better control experiment. And so we, we simply inserted into or injected into the blood, a Very low frequency tone, just a pure sinusoidal tone of 40 hertz.

John Stuart Reid: And, uh, and what we saw, what imprinted onto the surface of the blood was a beautiful cymatic pattern. That wasn’t a surprise because, you know, any liquid, we normally use water as the revealing medium. cymascope. But here we were using blood, which is obviously, you know, quite a bit more viscous than water.

John Stuart Reid: But nevertheless, I started off by saying, you know, that cymatic patterns appear all around us, really imprint on all the surfaces around us, even solid, what we think of as solid surfaces, you know, countertops, you know, the screen of your computer, whatever, you know, these are all surfaces that are actually they have cymatic patterns on them.

John Stuart Reid: But here we were imprinting it onto human blood. And so we saw this beautiful pattern emerge, which was not a surprise, said, but then what was the surprise was we then stopped the 40 hertz tone, expecting the pattern to disappear. It did not, did not disappear. What happened was this beautiful pattern just stayed on the surface of the net.

John Stuart Reid: It’s changed because the light that normally reflects off, you know, the surface, uh, we had turned that off and what we saw instead. was this bright scarlet pattern, um, against the, you know, contrasted against a very dark maroon color of the natural blood, you know, that’s the natural color of the blood when it comes from the blood bank, it’s this extremely dark maroon color, very almost black to the eye.

John Stuart Reid: Um, but as soon as you introduce sound into the blood, it, it goes bright scarlet as we discovered. And when you then take the sound, the sound away. The scarlet pattern remains and it remained there for anything up to about 20 minutes. It dissolved away very, very slowly and kind of merged in with the background, but over quite a period of time, 15, 20 minutes.

John Stuart Reid: And so this was really, really exciting because it told us immediately what the mechanism was that was driving this, you know, regeneration of the old red blood cells. The mechanism is oxygen binding. So what happens is in our bodies, of course, we have a heart, a pump, which pumps the blood around the circulatory system, vascular system.

John Stuart Reid: It turns out that the heart has, well, we know the heart has multiple You know, purposes in the body. It isn’t just a pump. It does all sorts of other things, but in this case, the big discovery was that the heart is actually creating sound pulses that have a purpose for every heartbeat. Of course, is a low frequency pulse of sound where everyone knows that you just listen to your own heartbeat, and you know it’s making this beautiful low frequency pulses, but who knew that these low frequency pulses are actually having a purpose.

John Stuart Reid: Purpose is. to cause the oxygen that’s already dissolved in your blood from normal respiratory situation. You know, your alveoli and your lungs are always gas exchanging and sending oxygen into your blood and taking the CO2 out. And that’s a normal part of the respiration, of course. And blood in our bodies is completely engorged with oxygen all of the time.

John Stuart Reid: And, uh, but that oxygen Cannot bind to the hemoglobin molecules in the red blood cells until there is a heartbeat. Everybody knew that, right? Everyone knew that. What they didn’t know was, it’s not just the, the, the, the, the pressure of the heart in terms of circular, circ, circulating the blood, it’s literally the sound of the heartbeat that causes the oxygen to bind to the hemoglobin molecule, right?

John Stuart Reid: So now you see a picture in which cymatics. cymanic science has revealed to us a completely well, what seems like so commonplace, you know, to know this now that we know it’s like, Oh, yeah, of course. But we know this before, right? And so cymanics enabled us to, to discover something really magical, which is that whenever we are immersed in music, then the low frequency component in the music is actually helping our oxygenation in our bloodstream.

John Stuart Reid: So if we have a gong bath, if we’re lying in a gong bath somewhere, you know, or, or crystal bowl bath, or just in a musical concert, whether that be live music or recorded music, we are actually benefiting hugely. And the reason we are benefiting is because oxygen is the key ingredient, key molecule in the body that drives virtually all of the healing mechanisms.

John Stuart Reid: Not all of them, but most of the healing mechanisms in the body require copious amounts of oxygen to drive them. So music in that sense is helping us to heal at a very, very deep level. And this is all came about because of cymatics.

Karen Curry Parker: That’s amazing. That’s absolutely amazing. And it just makes me think about just the innate understanding that we have, or the innate ways we’ve organized ourselves around sound, even in more indigenous settings, like when we sit in a drum circle, for example, or even just, you know, the, the, we know that infants need that connection to, you know, that holding, but maybe it’s not just the holding, but also the connection to the sound of the heartbeat of the mother.

John Stuart Reid: Absolutely. You mentioned drumming there, Karen. I mean, drumming is, you know, we can now see exactly why drumming is so powerful as a healing tool, the instrument, because it’s, it’s basically mimicking what the heart is doing. You know, it’s literally mimicking the heartbeats. Oh gosh, you know, it’s really

Karen Curry Parker: wonderful.

Karen Curry Parker: It’s so exciting. And, and I think, you know, again, continues to open up the possibility that the restoration of wellness, in addition to, you know, augmenting healing on the material level benefits when we incorporate what we think of as an alternative modality at this point. But when we start to build that science base, as you’re doing to show that these holistic treatments.

Karen Curry Parker: Are not actually complimentary, but are also integral to the healing process. I, I was flashing back when you were talking, I was thinking about how, when I was 1st, a nurse a long time ago, um, we had, we worked really hard to. Get permission to play harps in the ICU, and we actually had a harp player come in and play in the ICU.

Karen Curry Parker: Wow. The amount of resistance that we got at the time was just unbelievable. And I’m thinking now about how, actually, when we brought those in, everybody, it settled. Like our cases of ICU dementia went down or psychosis went down. Um. And I, I wonder, you know, what was actually playing there and what was, what was actually going on.

Karen Curry Parker: So, wow,

John Stuart Reid: that’s really amazing to hear that. I didn’t, I didn’t know that because, you know, music therapy has actually been around since I would say the 1950s was really the rise of music therapy. As a, as a medical discipline. And so I didn’t know that some hospitals actually resisted it. I, my present understanding is that music therapy is growing year upon year.

John Stuart Reid: And it’s, it is. very prevalent in many hospitals. But of course, there can never be, there could never be enough music therapists to go around. It’s a very valuable discipline, but it’s, you know, limited in that sense because, uh, well, millions of patients in hospitals all over the world, you know, um, and there could never be enough music therapists.

John Stuart Reid: However, the good news is that many clinicians now. are talking about music medicine, which has actually become a new clinical term. So if you, you know, if any of your viewers look this up online or listeners look it up, you’ll find that music medicine is being explored by many hospitals now. And what they’ve come to realize, lo and behold, is that music has therapeutic properties, even without the presence of a therapist, because, you know, therapist is.

John Stuart Reid: a valuable aid. It’s kind of a talk therapy as well as the patient receiving music. But of course, as, as my research has shown in the last 20 or so years, music does have many biological, uh, benefits for a person. And of course, specific sound frequencies as well, not just music, but, but specific sound therapy.

John Stuart Reid: frequencies, uh, also have many benefits. But anyway, talking now about music therapy, music, full body immersion in music has a whole range of different therapeutic values to the body. And then there’s a whole nother set of therapeutic values that come from listening to music or experiencing music through good quality headphones.

John Stuart Reid: And actually the, the, the ideal scenario, uh, in a clinical setting for the future would be for patients to receive both simultaneously. Now you might think, Aaron, that, well, hang on, how can a patient prone in a, you know, in a hospital bed receive full body immersion in music? And, uh, and it’s a good question, but fortunately today there is actually a technology that can provide that.

John Stuart Reid: And, and I’d love to see this happen in the future in hospital settings, where what happens is you instead of giving the patient music from a conventional speaker system, which of course would radiate throughout the ward, you know, everyone would have to experience that music. You don’t want that, obviously, in a clinical setting, you want the patient to have their own music, perhaps, and not affect anyone else.

John Stuart Reid: And now, ultrasound speakers are available that do exactly that. So an ultrasound speaker works to beam the music to the patient without anyone else outside of the beam being able to hear the music. So it’s a very narrow beam of energy that’s directed, you know, either from the ceiling or from a high up on the wall behind the patient’s bed beams this music down to the patient, only the patient can experience the music.

John Stuart Reid: Even a nurse or a doctor standing right beside the bed wouldn’t hear a thing until they put their head inside the beam, then they would experience it. Uh, so this is a great way for the body to receive healing benefits from, you know, full body immersion in the music. Simultaneously, the patient would be wearing these high quality headphones.

John Stuart Reid: Now, why do I say high quality? This is all coming now to another, uh, another discovery that I made two years ago. This is a fabulous discovery that, again, I think will help so many patients in the future in hospital settings. And it concerns what I’m notionally calling acoustic heterodyning. So it’s a fancy sounding word, heterodyne.

John Stuart Reid: What does it mean? It means usually the mixing of electromagnetic frequencies to create new frequencies. So in the electronics industry, heterodyning is, you know, a commonplace word. It’s used by engineers in the electronics industry. And it just simply means that when you take two frequencies and you mix them together, electromagnetic frequencies we’re talking about, then they will automatically create new frequencies, what I call sum, S U M, and difference frequencies.

John Stuart Reid: So some of them add and some of them subtract, and you end up with these new frequencies that are then Utilized in the electronics apparatus, whatever it is, could be a television or radio or whatever. But this term heterodyning is not usually used in audio. And the discovery I made was as follows that, um, I’ve been doing a lot of research into the vagus nerve and how the vagus nerve can have so many wonderful health benefits for anyone who cares to stimulate their own vagus nerve, right?

John Stuart Reid: So, the vagus nerve, as you know, it leaves the brain stem, uh, when it first leaves the brain stem, It branches off to the two ears, the tragus of the ears, the left and right ears. And this little flap of tissue that overhangs the auditory canal is literally where the vagus nerve first terminates. And this is great news because it means that we can stimulate the vagus nerve literally through the ears through headphones, right?

John Stuart Reid: Then the vagus nerve goes to the pharynx and the larynx. More good news, because we can stimulate the vagus nerve with our own voice. And then the vagus nerve branches off and goes to many different organs, to the liver, to the kidneys, to the pancreas, and so on, you know, all the heart and even the gut. So we can stimulate all of these organs simply by specific frequencies that are received through the ears.

John Stuart Reid: These frequencies that have been discovered, not by me in this case, but by many other researchers have been discovered to be very, very low in the order of five to 10 Hertz, which is actually below the range of audibility for humans. Some animals can hear down there like elephants and so on, but not humans.

John Stuart Reid: So below the range of audit, audibility, your ability for humans falls off at about 16 hertz, but researchers have found this range 5 to 10 hertz for optimal stimulation of the vagus nerve. So this particular day, a couple of years ago, I had been listening to, uh, some music from two dear friends of ours and colleagues now, Anders Holt, uh, that’s H O L T E.

John Stuart Reid: and his lovely wife, Kachina. I’d been listening to a wonderful album at breakfast time that they created. It’s called Dream, the Dream of the Blue Whale. And on this album, you hear Anders effectively kind of mimicking the sounds of a blue whale, these beautiful, you know, low frequency sounds. And I just had this thought this particular day, I wonder what pitch, what vocal pitches Anders is able to get down to, and you know, how, how low can he go?

John Stuart Reid: So I brought the album down into the lab here, and I literally put it into our system here, and looked at it on the spectrum analyzer. And what I saw, Karen, was a really big surprise, because I was seeing frequencies down to the, well, the lowest band on the analyzer is 12 hertz. But knowing that the shape of the bell, that’s a bell curve shape of the analyzer, each, each frequency on the analyzer has a bell curve shape of spectrum of characteristic curve.

John Stuart Reid: So I knew that frequencies would be present down to four and five hertz. When you see the 12 hertz band dancing up and I knew that there would be four and five hertz frequencies present. So this was amazing. I thought, well, how on earth is this possible? And one of the reasons I thought that is because apart from the fact that I knew that the human voice can’t get anywhere near those kind of frequencies.

John Stuart Reid: Also, engineers in recording studios Press a button that rolls the frequencies off below 20 hertz. And they do that deliberately because speaker systems in particular cannot handle sounds below 20 hertz. They kind of, the colors of the speakers flap about, you know, with very low frequencies, even big speakers do that.

John Stuart Reid: So they, they, they roll the frequencies off. So that meant. that the, that the CD that I was playing from Anders and Kachina, that there were no frequencies present on that CD below 20 Hertz. And yet here was the 12 Hertz band dancing merrily up and down. And this is, this was the discovery. So then I excitedly went up into the, into our home, brought down a whole bunch of other CDs to try.

John Stuart Reid: And lo and behold, some of them had the same effect and some didn’t. And so it’s still a bit of a mystery as to why that is. Well, it is indeed a mystery. But the good news is that we now have a bunch of albums that are creating in real time. These heterodyne frequencies that are very, very low and can be used for vagus nerve stimulation, right?

John Stuart Reid: But you have to have, not through a speaker system, you have to have it through good quality headphones. Why? Because good quality headphones can indeed reproduce frequencies down to five hertz. So I recommend a type of headphone of brand of headcore headphone called Bayer Dynamic, B E Y E R, Dynamic, and there’s a model that they produce, well they produce many models, but there’s a model called DT 770 Pro, and this model, the reason I’m mentioning that I don’t have shares in Beyerdynamic, maybe I should, but you know, um, I mentioned Beyerdynamic in this particular DT 770 Pro because they are, they have an amazing frequency response of five Hertz to 35, 000 Hertz.

John Stuart Reid: Oh, wow. That’s amazing. And yet the price of them is really quite modest. There are many sets of headphones you can look at that are high quality Uh, that have really big price tags attached to them, like a thousand dollars, you know, whatever, for good headphones. So these ones, you know, are nowhere near that price, like a hundred and something dollars, but they are really, really high quality.

John Stuart Reid: And there was a funny little, uh, coda to this story, which is that when I spoke with Anders about it and said, you know, Did you know that your, well, of course you didn’t know that your album is creating these really, really low frequencies down to four and five Hertz. And he didn’t believe it initially, but then I had to show him a video of the spectrum analysis actually happening in real time.

John Stuart Reid: And then of course he believed it. But, but then it turns out that he and Kachina actually own these same headphones, the DT 770 pro and anyone, you know, watching or listening to this. that want to literally go out and buy these headphones. Uh, please note that there are three models available. There’s a 32 Ohm.

John Stuart Reid: This is the resistance of the headphones. 32 Ohm, there’s also 80 Ohm, and there’s also a 250 Ohm. Well, you can forget the 250 Ohm. That is only for professional studio applications. But the other two, 80 ohm model is for all Apple devices. So whether you have an Apple iPhone or a iPad or a, you know, computer, Apple computer, all for 80 ohm.

John Stuart Reid: Everything else, like for PCs, for Android powered devices, for stereo systems, audio stereo systems. You want the 32 ohm model. So that’s, you know, and then you’re going to benefit from a list of albums. I’d be happy to share with you, Karen, that you can then, you know, post on your website or whatever. This is a list of the albums that I’ve so far tested and that then produced the Vegas optimal Vegas nerve stimulation.

John Stuart Reid: Now that’s a long winded way of saying. What, what benefits do we get from vagus nerve stimulation? Well, there are many and, but one of them that has the most potential, let’s say, in medical science of the future, again, coming back to this, you know, visualization here of a bed with a pro patient and they’re wearing headphones and they’re also receiving music through the full body as well with, through the ultrasound speakers, right?

John Stuart Reid: This is the potential future. What one of the benefits that they’re going to receive from vagus nerve stimulation is reversal, complete reversal of chronic inflammation in their body. Now chronic inflammation, uh, and chronic pain that very often associated with chronic inflammation. cannot currently be cured by any medical intervention.

John Stuart Reid: There’s no pill, there’s no pharmacology that you can, you know, use to reverse chronic inflammation. It usually happens, it occurs in many people’s bodies because of a whole set of Situations that occur where the cytokines in the bloodstream, there’s two types of them primarily, and they become out of balance, and they start to fight with each other.

John Stuart Reid: They have literally having a battle going on in your stream. If you have chronic inflammation. Well, it turns out from many studies that simply by optimally stimulating the vagus nerve. That the cytokines gradually come back into balance, and it only takes about three weeks for this to happen. So literally, by, literally by listening or experiencing beautiful music, right?

John Stuart Reid: This These problems that people are experiencing are millions of people all over the world that have chronic inflammation in their bodies and the pain that goes with it. And simply by listening to beautiful music for, you know, three or four times a day over a period of three weeks, the homeostasis of the body can be completely, you know, retrieved as it were.

John Stuart Reid: One of the other many benefits is reduction of. Uh, sorry, slowing the rate at which we age, which is I think everybody’s interested in. Uh, and then, and then another one is huge increase in cancer prognosis. And again, many studies are showing this, you know, that anyone that has, that is suffering from whatever form of cancer, the outcome will be greatly improved if they’re, if they are stimulating their vagus nerve.

John Stuart Reid: So, you know, that’s just three of many different aspects of vagal stimulation. Uh, so it’s a really wonderful future that lies ahead, Karen, you know, in medical science. And, you know, I, I had a, a chat with Shamini Jain on a, on a podcast a few months ago. And, uh, and she told me something that I didn’t know about this gap between medical.

John Stuart Reid: Discoveries and actual practice, you know, in a hospital setting, and, uh, and it’s apparently 17 years between this is typical, you know, between a discovery and literally this becoming utilized in a medical setting. Well, I can only hope, you know, that that. That is speeded up greatly in terms of this vagus nerve stimulation that I’m mentioning.

John Stuart Reid: And of course, also, the idea of helping a patient in a hospital bed, who is perhaps Low on oxygen because they’re either the respiration is poor or their heart, you know, their power of their heart has as has is not allowing enough oxygen into their bloodstream. Either way, low frequency sound coming up through the bed from low frequency transducers literally.

John Stuart Reid: Into this bed of the future could really help enormously that that patient and then all these other ways that I’ve been mentioning, you know, the ultrasound speakers and the headphones and all of this is feasible for the future and it’s really it’s an exciting future actually very

Karen Curry Parker: exciting and and so not so.

John Stuart Reid: Perfect. Yeah, you can’t overdose on music, at least not too much.

Karen Curry Parker: I think in my teens, my dad might have thought that was possible, but yes, you cannot overdose on music. John, thank you so much for joining us. For those of you who want to learn more about John’s work. and explore some of the products that John has, uh, that can help you bring the power of sound and the power of sound made visible into your life.

Karen Curry Parker: Uh, you can visit and learn more about John’s work on his website, That’s C Y M A S C. O. P. E. dot com. You can also follow john on his youtube channel. Um, we will post in our show notes the list of the music that we need to be listening to for our Vegas nerd. And also check out the shop on the same scope dot com page where john has, uh, some products for you, including a water wonders kit assignment plate kit.

Karen Curry Parker: And coming up soon, you’ll have your new Cymascope app. So, uh, stay tuned to the work that John is doing and make sure you get your conversion, uh, the new version of the Cymascope app and, um, go check out what, what John’s doing. So thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. So many more questions. I’m looking forward to having you back sometime soon.

Karen Curry Parker: Um, I love that. And, uh, best, best good wishes and sending a good healing energy to your wife as well. So thank

John Stuart Reid: you so much, Karen. Many blessings. Thank you.

Karen Curry Parker: Bye bye. Bye.

 [Outro to this episode, “The Science of Visible Sound with John Stuart Reid,” with Karen Curry Parker]

Karen Curry Parker: When I was a nursing student, one of the graduate students in our program noticed that music seemed to have a positive impact on babies in the NICU. She fought hard to bring music into the unit, which in turn encouraged the ICU nurses to do the same thing. They found that adding music seemed to decrease the stress of being in the ICU and later conducted research to show that music in high-stress settings in the hospital can reduce stress and, in the case of the ICU specifically, reduce the incidence of ICU psychosis.

Karen Curry Parker: The research of John Stuart Reid seems to reveal that there’s more going on here than the music drowning out the beeps and sounds of the machinery in the ICU or babies being soothed by music. There’s a mechanism at work here that seems to tell a story that sound and music do much more than nurture our senses.

Karen Curry Parker: Sound and music have the power to heal. Cymatics has the capacity to help us see the mechanisms of how sound works to change and restructure the body towards a state of greater wellness and well being. The programming of sound changes the structure and function of the body and, with the application of specific sound tones and frequencies, we can augment healing on the physical level or even enhance optimal wellness before illness even appears.

Karen Curry Parker: As we explore how to heal a healthcare system that has spiraled out of control in the hands of insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry, imagine how empowering, and inexpensive, it is to think about restoring or building wellness simply by adding the power of sound and music.

Karen Curry Parker: If you’d like to learn more about John Stuart Reid’s work and about Cymatics, please visit John’s website or subscribe to John’s YouTube channel. As we continue to explore the leading edge of integrated medicine and holistic healing, it is pioneers and independent researchers like John Stuart Reid who promised to lead the way with groundbreaking science to help us remember that sometimes, the easy answer is the most elegant. And sometimes, it’s as simple as remembering the power of the heartbeat to heal.

Karen Curry Parker: To get your free Quantum Human Design™ chart, which includes the high-frequency Quantum Human Design™ language, please visit I’m Dr. Karen Curry Parker, hoping that this conversation helps you remember you deserve to tell a story about yourself that includes optimal well being and health.

Karen Curry Parker: Thank you for joining me for Quantum Revolution.

 [Outro to the Quantum Revolution Podcast]

Announcer: Thank you for joining us on Quantum Revolution with Karen Curry Parker. For more information on how to change your world and to hear more about our guests today, visit Make sure you follow us on your favorite podcasting platform, so you don’t miss a single episode of Quantum Revolution.

We’ll see you next time for some more groundbreaking conversations with Karen and her guests. How will you impact your world, today?